The Bookmonger Society

Manacle-Part3-Review
===

[00:00:00] Okay, people. Here we are. We are at the start of episode four. We are at the end of Manacled, and this is a romance, so we knew it was gonna be happily ever after. Draco, Hermione, hero, heroine, two little love birds in a nest, K-I-S-S-I-N-G. Everything is perfect,

sort of, not quite. They have their own little twisted happily ever after, but definitely can say All is well in the world.

Well, let's talk about it.

The book, monger Society is a podcast for sci-fi fantasy readers who get too attached to fictional characters and writers who think way too hard, hosted by Andrea and Leah. It's a chaotic, craft, focused and emotionally unregulated conversation about the books we use to escape reality. Take a seat and welcome to the Society, the book Monger Society.

First segment is bookmarked. Here's a little recap of where we are. Act one [00:01:00] is all about Hermione in the dark. Then she gets brought into the light and finds out that she is going to be a handmaid to one Draco Malfoy. Draco's. Not very nice to her, and they are trying to get all of her memories out of her brain because she is essentially.

They think the last member of the order of the Phoenix and Voldemort wants to know if there's any more people left out there that are gonna fight him. And she can't remember though. So all of her memories are locked away. All the important ones anyways. Well, that was kind of mean, but all the ones Voldemort thinks are important are locked away

so in order to unleash them, the working theory is that if they get her pregnant, then the baby's magic will have a reaction and they will unlock. And so Act two is all of the flashbacks because she does get pregnant in act one. And then the memories do start to unlock. And we find out that Draco and her had established a relationship because he was a [00:02:00] spy and she was his handler.

Mm-hmm. For about the last year of the resistance. And so then Act three brings us back to present day. Hermione remembers pretty much everything. Draco has been living in this hell of raping his girlfriend for a few months. That's where we

are, and that's where we are. So that being said, act three means we have both read everything.

Everything is on the table. Spoilers abound. So nothing is going to be off the table. So if you don't know why Hermione desperately needs Phoenix tears, you should go finish the book and then come back and talk to us about it.

Unless you have no intention of reading this book,

in which case then just listen to us.

We'll explain it all, we'll just tell you about it. So, um, other warning, just like previous episodes, there is going to be talk of torture and there's going to be gore. There's going to be [00:03:00] sex, there's going to be manipulation. So if you have little listening ears around, we recommend that you wait until they are in fact, not other thing.

We recently found out that Nu is non-binary and prefers the pronouns they them. So hence fourth. For this episode and future episodes, we will be using the pronouns they them to describe the author. So

with that all, here are the questions that I left off with from last episode that we need to find out in this act three.

How did they get the manacles off? How does Draco get his dark mark off? And when, how does Voldemort die? If he does, who kills him? These are what we're gonna find out in Act three. So let's go right into the margins. And my 0.1 is Ginny, she's alive. She's alive. And I had thought Draco killed Ginny after act one [00:04:00] because that's what they told me.

They literally told us that's what happened, but it was a lie. And then act two, I was like, oh wait, there's not enough time for her to go crazy. And then there's not really a reason for him to kill her, right? And so. Now it's official. Right away in the beginning of Act three, Draco tells her Myy, I whisked her away.

She's safe and she's had a baby. They're waiting for you. She knows you're alive too. And all of the things. So yay, yay Leah's alive. 'cause she said she's most like Ginny. So I was personally excited that you relate to Ginny. I can't, and that she lived. I was excited for you. I

can't say that I feel completely represented by anyone in this story, but, you know, hiding out in, you know, a, you know, a Japanese Wonderland.

Sounds kind of nice,

doesn't it though? I'm gonna go to Japan in March. Did you know that you were I did. We did. Yeah, I am. It's very exciting. Point number two, it's a girl. I predicted it. I [00:05:00] knew it was gonna have that whole hairy and Hermione parallel situation and I kind of, there's like a part of me that would've maybe been interested in it reversing where Ginny has a girl and Hermione has a boy, but there's this whole part about, because Hermione is having a girl, it's not gonna be draco's heir, and so it can't inherit the Malfoy manner.

And there's like all of this stuff about Boo. It's a girl, right? So I, I mean I get it's like more interesting in that way. It's um, so yeah, it's a girl. I.

Just, just cheese?

No, just I,

no

thoughts. Just YI thought it was so funny that for Draco, this like wasn't even something on his radio. He's like, obviously it's gonna be a girl. It couldn't be a boy and for her mind, right? Like this was a deal, was going to do whatever she could to make sure that she wouldn't end up, you know, with Astoria or with Dole.

[00:06:00] Ha. Or, or Stroud. Right. Whereas Draco was like in his mind, as soon as we get Hermione out of here, she's going to have an abortion. We just need to make sure that she can, that Hermione can move on with her life without any strings attached. Yeah. Right. So they were both looking, he was looking at her pregnancy.

Purely clinically to see how it affected Hermione health, whereas Hermione was looking at it completely differently. Like, how can I make sure that this baby ends up okay no matter what happens to me? Yeah. So I, we kind of skipped over this a little bit at the beginning, so I wanna come back to it this moment when Hermione actually gets all of her memories back, sort of like in one sweeping moment.

Mm-hmm. Right? All of a sudden, the past and the present have collided, and then the next several weeks is how do they reconcile everything that has happened before and then after Hermione was imprisoned, right? So these scenes of [00:07:00] them trying to navigate these two different realities, colliding together just struck me over and over and over, and how they navigate that space between them again, like, what does this look like for them moving forward?

And Draco has. This moment again, talking about the pregnancy, right? Where she's like, I'm, I'm obviously going to keep and take care of this baby, right? It's ours. And Draco's, like, it doesn't matter what color its eyes are or how old it gets, it will be the child of a murderer conceived because I raped you while you were my prisoner.

And everyone will know that. Everyone, because it was highly publicized. You will never get away from it. Hermione on the other side is looking, looking at Draco. Like she has this line where she says, like, even before I remembered, right, you were the only thing that ever felt safe, right? I [00:08:00] love you. I will always love you always, until there's nothing left of me.

I actually hope that's in, that's in the new book. I love that line. Um, so for her. That experience is really different for extremely valid reasons. Draco is just soaked in his guilt, right? He can barely look at Hermione without being so devastated by all of the things that he did to her, and he was act.

He actually says, at one point, I was hoping that you would never remember what we were together, that you would never remember what we actually had together, because how do we move forward from here? Like I was just hoping to help you survive and get out of this. That was his only motivation at this point, and she has this thought at one point and says the war had eaten him.

There was so little of him left. Other death eaters had retired from the war after the battle of Hogwarts, but Draco hadn't had the ability, had never been afforded the luxury [00:09:00] because he had to continue because he'd made a vow, an unbreakable vow to defeat Voldemort. He had to give his best, always his best.

Day after day. And you can see that throughout the whole story, how he just becomes more and more and more drained until again, there's so little left of him by the end because he has given everything, not only because of the unbreakable valve, but because of the, the rooms on his back that are driving him to do so.

Yeah. And at one point her's like, I saved you and Drake's like, you didn't save us. You put us in two years of hell. Yeah. And what's your take on that? Do you think he would've been better off just to kill himself? Is there nobleness or value in this level of trial and tribulation?

I think it's [00:10:00] valid to be honest.

Yeah. But, and at the same point, we wouldn't have a story. Right.

Like,

well, you'd have a shorter story. You have a short, you'd have a different story for sure. But I mean, they, I mean, we know they were never supposed to survive, right? Yeah. They were never supposed to make it. Right. And so the fact that they do means yes, they have to navigate.

And that's where the tension comes in. Like that's what the sign of a good story, right? Like if you, they don't have that, you lose all of that, all of that magic. But one thing that struck me in thinking about that, right? Like they should have died, right? But they didn't. And they have to go through two years of hell in order to essentially like make it together, right?

But in the first act, Hermione kind of laments this dream of having like the, like normal things in life, right? Like getting married, having kids growing old together. She knows that she's never gonna have that. Draco obviously knows he is never gonna [00:11:00] have that. Right? And a part of her, you know. Grieves that a bit.

And so when we get to Act three, and her and Draco are trying to navigate this new life together, there's this moment where they're together and she's actually reciting marriage vows in her head. And she never says this out loud. Yeah. But it's like her cementing her devotion to Draco no matter what happens, despite everything that they've been through.

And so, yes, in the end, they do ultimately end up getting that dream that she originally knew she had to give up. They do end up together. They do in fact have a child together, and they do in fact grow old together. Now that came with an ocean of like trauma with it, but that's what made this whole experience so.

Bittersweet. Yeah, I

agree. They are a, they're, they're a, they're a pair. [00:12:00] All right. One of the things that struck me is I would never start a company with either one of these people, because they are terrible partners. They do not know how to be partners with each other. They are both extremely stubborn.

Mm-hmm. They do not ask for help when they so obviously fucking need it. And I think that because this is from her min's perspective, I'm only getting her perspective. Yeah. So it's the only one that I can really judge. Right. And from her perspective, I think she has a startling irritatingly, so lack of self-awareness.

And she has this line where she is ragging on my boy Draco. I also am a Draco apologist. I fucking love this guy. So I am also, understandably. More on Dre, on team Draco than I am team. Draco. Hermione. But so she has this line where she is ragging on him and he, she says his plans were stupid and selfish.

It wasn't fair that he got to die and she [00:13:00] was left to live with everything. If he'd just let her help him rescue Ginny, none of this might have happened. He should have let them work together. If he hadn't been so controlling and not tried to do everything by himself, everything might have been different.

You could literally put a mirror up to her and say her plants were stupid and selfish. It wasn't fair that she got to die, that he was left to live with everything, which for the whole time she didn't remember. Mm-hmm. He had to live with everything that he had done. Yeah. He had to remember, and if she'd just let him help her.

Not rescue Ginny, but erase the fact that he was ever there. Yeah. None of this might have happened. She should have let them work together if she hadn't been so controlling and not tried to do everything by her herself. Everything might've been different. Like you two are possibly [00:14:00] the best wizard and healer on the fucking planet, and you just refuse to work together.

Ugh. It's like they're both always trying to save the other person secretly. And so, I mean, in that, they're almost the same person in that sense. Totally. And then, um, and Draco calls her out on it at one point. He's like, oh, no, no, no, you don't keep. Your promises, you just make questionable ones and then pick and choose which ones you actually want to follow through on.

Right. And so, yes, their flaws throughout the story are, are very consistent, right? Like he is always going to be kind of cold and obsessive and you know, with a very one track mind on what he sets out to achieve. And she's always going to feel overly responsible for people and be kind of the martyr.

Yeah.

Does her savior complex ever annoy you? Because I found myself getting [00:15:00] real fucking annoyed a little in Act three. I was like, Hermione, you gotta get some growth in you girl. Like I was just waiting for the arc. I was like, okay, I can listen. I love her. And last episode I was like, oh my God, like leave Hermione alone.

She's doing everything. Yeah, yeah. And she gets no appreciation. But by Act three, I was like, listen, now it's reaching that point where you gotta learn something. About yourself. Yeah. And how to navigate this life. So you just have to start making different choices if you want different results. You know what I mean?

I started getting really frustrated with her that it was like, why do you continue to do this?

Yeah. I mean, God, I have mixed feelings about this, but there is a lack of like character arc in this story. But I, there was also something that was weirdly satisfying to me that they were both who they were to the end.

You know what I mean? Like Yeah. And they did okay. They did [00:16:00] learn in little ways. Like, I can't say that there was, you know, a profound character arc here. There was not. There was not, however. At the end, when Ginny goes to speak on behalf of all of the other victims, I felt like, oh, that was something that Hermione would normally do.

She would normally take responsibility for all of the other victims. She would feel that was her job.

Right?

Right. And then Draco would have never allowed him, you know, himself, to open up to another person. And you know, he does in fact open up to his daughter and she becomes closer to him, arguably more so than Herin knee.

Yeah. So there is a little bit of arc there, but I do see your point in that their flaws are inherently part of them through and through to the very end.

Yeah. And so much so that by the time that Hermione figures out how to get his dark mark off, I was so torn because there was a part of me that, obviously I'm pro women.

I, you know, I love that Hermione [00:17:00] is a heroine, that she's whip smart, that she can survive all of this torture and even be the amount of. Herself that she still is and not just crumple up and die. Right. I wanted mm-hmm. To continue to like her. But there was another part of me that was like, oh, of course her mind figured it all out.

This thing no one has ever been able to do. She's like, oh, Phoenix Tears the whole secret. And I just researched and researched research. I was just like, I liked it. Okay. It was fine, but I was, I was a little like, you didn't find it satisfying like I did. No, I'm definitely not. I You are in love with this book.

I think it's good. It's, yes, I like it. Fair. I'm not, not into it, but I'm not Leah level. It's fair. Few people are Leah level about this

book. Yeah. So what makes you great, to your point, Hermione is a researcher at her core. Yeah. So, yes, obviously she would do whatever she could to find a way to save Draco, and the [00:18:00] natural place for her to do that is in books.

But that opens up another topic we need to talk about. Their view of time over the last few days that they have together. Right. Because her mighty wants to use that time to research a cure for Draco. So obviously he can escape with her because she's essentially sacrificing herself for him, the way he's sacrificing himself for her.

'cause they never learn. But you know, so obviously that's, that's her number one priority. Saving him is her number one priority. And research is the only means that she has to do that. Yeah. On the opposites end, Draco is like, I, I just want the opportunity to say goodbye to you Yeah. Before you leave. Right.

And he's, I just want to spend time with you. So they're looking at those last few days very differently where Hermione is like, like racing against the clock to find a cure for him. And he's like, I really just want to live in [00:19:00] the moment with you for a little while because this is gonna be. The end for me.

And so it, a couple of those scenes just gutted me. Like when they're out, um, they're walking in the garden.

Mm-hmm.

And Draco suddenly starts telling her stories about his childhood.

Yeah.

And she realizes like, oh my God, he's telling me these stories because he knows I would want to tell our daughter stories about him and what he was like outside of just the time that I spent with him.

Yeah. So he is trying to give me that, my heart, and then that is a very good scene. It was good. I loved it. And then Hermione is just so angry. I mean, understandably so. She says, you know, I never get to choose you. I'm so sick of always having to make a choice and I never get to choose you. [00:20:00] Yeah. And Drake was like.

I don't want you to choose me. I want you to stop trying to break yourself to save me. Just get out. Like just get out of this.

Yeah. And this, so this whole idea of choice. Yeah. That's part of, again, my beef with Hermione and her lack of self-awareness is I have been a partner for a long time. I've known my husband for 25 years.

I've been married for 17. I have built and sold successful businesses. I know how to partner. So this comes from experience. Okay. This isn't a book that is trying to teach you how to be in a relationship. No, but I do think for me, the one piece that neither one of these characters understand, the most important choice you make in a partnership is choosing yourself.

Meaning you. When you are in a partnership, especially a one-to-one partnership, the weaker you [00:21:00] are, the sadder you are, the less in touch with what the fuck is going on with you, that you are, the worse you are as a partner. Mm-hmm. You drag the other person completely down because they are trying to overcompensate for all of these things that you're not dealing with for yourself.

Yeah. And I think that in Hermione and Draco's case, more so I see it with Hermione than I do with Draco. 'cause I'm a Draco apologist. I think she needs to figure out for herself.

Mm-hmm

What is going on with her and stop projecting this onto her. And you kind of mentioned it in the last episode too, that, you know, Hermione wants to feel needed, has this desire.

Yeah. Like that's the problem. Yeah. Like she needs to become. Confident in her own self and focus on herself. That's what she should have been spending all this fucking time doing. No, I'm just kidding. It's great that she figured out how to save Draco, but like maybe some self-help books would've also benefited Hermione in the library.

Uh, maybe if he just snuck some in, you know,

you bring up a good point in that Yes, in order [00:22:00] to yeah, be in any sort of successful relationship, you do have to put in the work on yourself, not just. In the relationship itself, because your happiness impacts the dynamic between you.

Every, every decision you make is going to impact the highly sensitive, highly attuned dynamic that you create together.

Right? There's just two people, right? Like that's the thing, like when you are just with one other person. Yeah. Like Hermione and Draco are, and there's this idea of like codependency that has a negative connotation.

But I actually don't think that that's fair because obviously people in a committed monogamous relationship become dependent on each other. Of course, there is nothing wrong with being dependent on the other person. For I it is, it's kind of the fucking point to be honest of being in love, right? Like you depend on that other person to feel happy.

That is the thing. And yet there's this dichotomy of yes, that person is in some ways the [00:23:00] the largest piece impacting your happiness, and yet. They can't be responsible for your happy, for your happiness. You can't be responsible for their happiness. Right. And so there's always that, that balance of how can you make sure that you are taking care of both yourself and your needs, but also looking out for the needs of your partner.

Yeah. Because when you're both taking care of each other, then you're both gonna be okay. Yeah. So

she's just overindexing over indexing and taking care of dra. He, it's like 99.8% Draco, 0.02% Hermione. It needs to be, I mean, and he needs more help, right? He, he, he is in a pickle, you know, like he's kind of fucked.

Yeah. Like, he knows how to get you out of this situation. He doesn't know how to get himself out. So I'm not saying that she shouldn't try to help him, but I do think that she, she overindexes on solutioning for outside problems when she needs to do a little inner

[00:24:00] searching. I hear you. I adore Draco. But he's also.

Not a saint. The same as Hermione, right? I

don't think this man's ever done anything wrong.

Totally disagree. Totally disagree. He got fucked over by Voldemort. He would. He's a, he's a nice man. I like him a lot. Oh my God. Did you ever read, he's so handsome.

Did you ever read Darker Shade of Magic series? No. Okay. Highly recommend you can cut this out. the main character in there has the same abilities, same power as like the villain of the story.

Okay.

And when you step back and look at their characters, so much of who they became was just a, you know, result of their circumstances.

And you can watch going through the whole series, how if the roles were reversed Right. And the main character had grown up in the circumstances that the, the villain was, he would be, he would've [00:25:00] ended up being so much more cruel. So much more, yeah. Like deeply. Villainous then. Yeah. Yeah. Than the actual villain.

Like you, you see the result of how, how, honestly good the villain ended up considering all of her Yeah. His circumstances and you're like, no, no, no. He's the real victim. Yeah, yeah, yeah. At the end of all of this, anyways, recommend, you should read that. Okay. Okay.

Maybe next season we'll see. Okay.

Alright, so let's talk for a minute about the manacles and how I, I know so many things, but I, I wanna dive into how this has caused such a severe emotional repression for Hermione.

Okay. So they describe at one point how Hermione can't actually express any anger, any rage. She can only release her emotions through tears, like by crying. There's this line where she says. When she was alone, she wanted to scream and break [00:26:00] everything within reach. The manacles physically prevented her from doing anything but cry.

She was burning with rage and devastation and guilt without any capacity to channel it. She felt as though it was poisoning her from the inside as though the emotions were corroding the blood in her veins. Now, two points to this one. I think that there is a really strong, modern parallel to the tendency for people.

Um, I would say it's more common in women to. Repress their emotions to not seem, um, overly aggressive, to not seem bossy, to make themselves palatable for other people. And there is now research that shows that the more, the more you push that down, the more palatable you make yourself, the more prone you are to, you know, chronic illness, um, inflammation, like making yourself palatable for other people is actually killing you.

Yeah. And so this is the like magical equivalent [00:27:00] to this, right? Yeah. Like she can't actually express her emotions in any sort of healthy way. She just has to like bottle 'em up. Has to bury it. Yep. See,

I'm German. Oh, this is part of our culture. Okay. What you do when you're upset about something is you push it under the rug, but that's not enough.

You just walk on the rug until it turns to dust and then boom, flat done, and then no one ever has to experience it. Nobody ever has to experience your terrible, icky emotions. That's right. That's just we've, we had it, we've had it figured out for centuries. Honestly. It's pretty great as

always.

You know, all the things.

Oh, I have all the feelings. I

know.

It's great. Yeah. It's what makes us a good pair. That's, that's what it is. It's fine. Do you have a second point you had? You said you had two. I do have two points, yeah. So let's get around to the second point. I also found this to be an interesting literary tool. Okay. So in her head, right, she laments all of these emotional restraints.

Mm-hmm. But then she has that sort of like [00:28:00] rage out against Draco for. All of the things that he's doing wrong.

Right.

That's what I'm saying. Going back to like the, yeah. The self-awareness. But I think it ends up being, you know, some interesting foreshadowing for how she actually defends herself against Lucius.

Ooh, let's talk about it. Let's do it.

What, what? There's, there's quite a bit of killing here in this third act. Indeed. A lot of, a lot of loose ends beginning

to hide right up, um, including Lucius. Let's talk about it. Okay. Yeah. So Lucius comes in in. Act three. Very inconvenient because dude, he comes in

hot.

Oh man, he is, he is, talk about a man on a mission. He comes in all like, Draco, guess what? You didn't do what you were supposed to do for our boss, so now I have to do it for you. I have to find the last man brother resistance. He's like very sassy. I'm like, my goodness, father time. Like, why don't you give it a beat?

You know what I mean? [00:29:00] Like, he was so hot to track right away. And I,

and I actually really loved how pissed off he was about a story is redecorating.

Yeah.

So much so that he is just like, Nope, I'm just gonna drag a bleeding, you know, centar throughout the, the whole manner in all of the rooms that I dislike.

Um, very, I don't even wanna call it passive aggressive, but.

I don't know. I mean, I think that's the right, yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's not murdering her. Right? He waits to do that. Yeah. Like a day, right? Like a day and a half, he gets through with Astoria. So before he is like this bitch, see I don't like Lucius, but him and I, same page about Astoria, he's like, this bitch has no redeeming qualities.

She's not good for my son. Absolutely not. Get outta here. I will deal with the dark Lord. Fear of the dark Lord is not enough to keep me from killing you. I hate you so much.

So

yeah, you're, yeah. Slices her right up. You're so, [00:30:00] so annoying, so intolerable that yeah, we're just not gonna deal at all. Yeah.

So, and also, I mean, how is Astoria not scared of this man?

He has a reputation. He obviously is a hothead. I'm a mouthy bitch, but I would probably just. Be like, Hey, hey Elfs, could you please go clean up all of the end trails that Lucius has left on our chandeliers? You know what I mean? Like, I probably would've been like, I'll, I'll clean up. It's no problem. You know?

Like, I can't believe she has the gall to like go. Yeah, go at him. Like that's just stupid.

Yeah. Know your audience, her sense of entitlement was just beyond, right? Like, yeah. She even says like, this is my house now. Like, and Lucius is like, oh honey,

these men are dragons. S not, it's not, no. Yeah, yeah. So all be to say, I loved that scene.

[00:31:00] Okay. And then, um, but Lucius is also, um, coming for Hermione. Polls are by the belly button. By the belly button. That's, that's what the key does, whatever. That's my understanding of the, what is it called? What is it called? What is it called? A port key. Port key. That's my, my understanding of the port key is you touch an object and it pulls you by the belly button.

Is that correct? I mean, it's a teleportation device essentially, is what it is, but yes, they feel the sensation yes. In their stomach. Yeah. So I, I like your description just by the belly button, just being like tugged along by the belly button.

Yep. Okay. So he pulls Hermione into his layer and is gonna mind poker and, but he doesn't know what he is doing, which, there's nothing like the confidence.

Of a man, you have no fucking clue what you're doing, but you're just gonna bust in there and break some shit literally. And kid [00:32:00] be damned. 'cause he is not a boy anyways, so. Right. So it doesn't even matter, whatever. Um, and so Hermione to your point, has this moment, which I loved where she is now, understanding how to use the loopholes Yeah.

Of the manacles. Yeah. And so in that moment she realizes, no, no, no. The baby is the most important piece to this equation for the people who created the manacles. Right? Right. So my objective is to protect the baby by any means. Yep. By any means necessary. So that means killing the Lord of the house. Yeah.

I can scratch your eyeballs out. Right. Yeah. She doesn't actually end up killing him, but you know. She, she is, she, she gives it her damnedest. I

was gonna say, for somebody without any magic. Yeah. She really uses that raccoon in a corner energy and fucking goes at him. She, yeah. She

really determined to be more trouble than she's worth.

Yeah. That's amazing. Okay. But he does, he ends up killing himself. [00:33:00] Yes. You wanna talk about that? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. What are, what were your thoughts on how that all unfolded? It's very tidy,

so essentially what happens? Nice, nice little bow. Yeah. Essentially what happens is Lucius is in, in her Mindy's mind, and Hermione thinks about the fact that she needs Phoenix tears and he sees that, and then Draco.

Comes and saves Hermione. Right. Does Draco blow up the door? Yeah. Is that what happens? Yeah. Okay. I thought so, but it, it did get, it was a little bit confusing to me 'cause I thought Lucius was so mad. Okay. She, I mean, just, she was partially

conscious at the time. So

let me just back up a second. So there's this whole thing with Narcissus Narcissa.

Narcissa Narcissa, where she was tortured by the dark Lord, but only Draco knows that they never told Lucius. And so Hermione uses this [00:34:00] information when she is getting mind poked by Lucius to inform him that his wife, his beloved wife, the thing he's obsessed with and cares more about than anything in the world, was tortured by the dark Lord to fuck him up, basically.

Mm-hmm. And make him kind of stop being in her brain hopefully. And during that time, Draco comes and busts through. The protections or whatever that Lucius had on the layer. Yeah, he had like wards on there. Yeah. And bust through, and then they end up chaining Lucius to his cage. Then Lucius is basically like, Hey, did you need, did you need Phoenix tears?

Because I actually happen to have a 15th century vial just like tucked away over here of Phoenix Tears. Did, did, did you guys want that? And Armani's like, yes, please. And Drake was like, fuck off. I don't believe you. It's [00:35:00] probably watered down. It's unicorn blood. Yeah, it's probably bullshit. And um, I don't even trust you, whatever.

And Armani's like, no, no, no, please. I think he's being honest. And so essentially they make this deal that he will give them the Phoenix Tears, but then Lucius needs to die because he has no ability to protect his thoughts from the dark Lord. And. If the dark Lord captures him, he's gonna spill all the secrets exactly whether he wants to or not.

So he has to die. Are you gonna kill yourself for us in this big fireball so that it also looks like we both died in this big explosion. So that's what they decide to do. And like I said, my basic reaction to it was like very tidy.

Good.

Makes sense.

Like it No problem. Yeah. So for, and I thought it was so interesting that they didn't even play so much to his like emotions around it.

It was just very like, if you want your line to continue, if you want Draco to survive. Yeah. Like this is what's required. We need your Phoenix tears and we need you to die so that the dark Lord doesn't [00:36:00] find Draco. End of story. Yeah. And then what's so sad about this is like the decision to save Draco isn't so much an emotional one as it is just like.

I don't wanna say an obligation that feels like too harsh, but, but the emotional, but he doesn't care about Draco. He only ever cared about Narcissa Narcissa. So and so, like his emotional decision around this was, I will do it if you let me talk to her. Yeah, because, okay, so we're gonna step back on this a little bit.

So there's only one. Portrait left of Narcissa. And in this world, the portraits have a little bit of like sentience to them. Mm-hmm. And I like that by the way. I Okay. The moment where, um, Lucius like is torturing the Centar and, um, Narcissa and Hermione are together in the bedroom. Yeah. Like holding hands to, and then like, they like put their hands together and I know it was such like a corny thing, but at the same time I was so, I was, my, my heart just melted in that moment.

It was so sweet. That's very sweet

of you. I had [00:37:00] no emotions.

I did not care about that. I know. I was like, I was like, that's cool. But you know, back to Lucy's decision. So yeah, his decision to save Draco is primarily, you know, a logistical one, but his decision to, like his bargaining chip was, what he really cared about was to get to talk to Narciss.

So one time before he died and something about that was just so. Fucked up. Yeah. So fucked up.

Part of what bothers me the most about draco's lot in life is that he was so young when he made this eternal commitment. Yeah. To the dark Lord. But I have. Yeah. Luc Lucius is just a dickhead. Like he was a full grown adult when he's making all of these decisions.

Yeah. To be a terrible human being. So like good riddance. Bye bye. Thanks for taking care of a story on your way out. Appreciate that. Made this much cleaner for us. Yeah. Okay. So let's keep the killing going. Okay. Next, next to die [00:38:00] I believe. Is Voldemort right? Or does Stroud died next? I,

it

doesn't matter.

It was, let's talk

about both of them. Okay. Let's talk about Stroud first. Yeah. 'cause that one's a little bit cleaner. I mean, we, we knew our boy Draco, like he wasn't gonna let that stand. He was going to go take care of business. He is a, he is vengeance, he's very ven for

vendetta should be carved in one of those ruins in his back because that is how he operates

a hundred percent.

Whereas, you know, Hermione was like, no, I just want to leave all of this behind us. I don't want to. Yeah. She's very against the killing. Which actually that is not the case because in the war she was advocating for dark magic. I know, but

yeah. Okay. But yes, so, but she doesn't want him to kill for her. Yes.

She's very adamant about that. Yes. Again, it's like the team carry of each other thing. And again, she thinks she's the center of the universe and so obviously Draco wouldn't just wanna kill Stroud to kill her. He wants to kill her for Hermione, which he does,

but Okay.

I don't know [00:39:00] who doesn't want her dead.

Right. She's terrible. No one

is She

imprisoned and got a bunch of Yeah. Girls raped, like, I mean, she got no redeeming qualities. No one is lamenting drought. Right. So, okay, let's go on to Voldemort. Let's do it. What do you think about Ginny killing you? Basically, the girl that you relate to the most in the story ends up killing Voldemort.

And I actually, okay. The way I have mixed feelings about this. Right. Okay. So on one hand it, I can't say that I was like. Totally satisfied with her being the one to kill him. But at the same time, I don't, I can't think of anyone else I would've picked. Right. There's no one left. Right. You know what I mean?

Like it wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily want her minor. Your Draco to do it. Yeah. And there's really no one left outside of that. So I did admire that. She's like. I have to do something. Yeah. I have, it's my time. It's my time. You have all done [00:40:00] your time. It is now mine. But what I found actually so much more compelling wasn't the fact that because it made sense why she would, again, vengeance.

Yeah. Why she would want to, you know, avenge Harry and, and killed Voldemort. Logically, that made sense. What was more compelling to me was that she stayed and defended all the victims of the Repopulation program. Totally. Be for a couple of reasons. One, because she doesn't, didn't actually have any personal experience in it and Right.

Uh, two, she left her child for a significant amount of time Yeah. In order to do it. Um, so it was a real sacrifice for her to do that. But it was, for me, one of the most impactful moments of the story, especially when the government is trying to essentially sweep all this under the rug, like. Let's just all move past this so we can all can just move on.

Right? And she's like, oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no. We don't get to just like snap our fingers and decide like, [00:41:00] okay, we're done grieving this and we're all just going to move on. I loved that Ginny made sure that the victims were cared for as much as possible, right? Yeah. And that they got to choose, right?

Because the victims had very different experiences and very different attachments to the children that they bore. Right. Some of 'em

wanted to keep 'em right. Some of them wanted to forget,

right. One of them. Yes, exactly. So both of those outcomes were supported. If they wanted to raise their children, they could.

If they didn't, then that was also supported.

Yeah. Speaking of Ginny, what did you think of the reunion?

I actually loved the reunion because all three of them reacted perfectly. Like their reactions were. Superb. Right. Jenny should have been fiercely, you know, loyal to Hermione and trying to protect her from Draco, who is, I mean, let's be real.

He is a an [00:42:00] asshole. Right, right. And Draco, it was right of Draco to kind of just stoically take it at that point. And it was right for Hermione to defend him. Yeah. All of their reactions were entirely appropriate and I loved it.

Yeah. I will say part of what I like about Draco, so my husband doesn't like anyone but me.

I love that. I love that. I love that. Draco only fucks with Hermione. It's probably not a good trait of mine, but it's the same sort of thing. Like Jake does not like anyone else, and I'm sort of like, I don't, I don't really care.

He likes me,

loves me. It's

all that matters. So it is an interesting dynamic that Ginny lives with them.

And the, he wants nothing to do with her. He wants nothing to do with him. And like the only reason that she's alive is because Hermione cares about her and he cares how her Mindy feels. Yeah.

Okay. Um, do, are you ready to move on to the

writer's desk or you got something else? I, okay. I just want to touch on a few little bits in Bob's.

Okay. They didn't really [00:43:00] fit anywhere, but I just feel like they're worth it. Grab bag. Yeah. Grab bag of things. Leah's thinking about there is

to this book,

there is no like rhyme or reason for these. Sure. I'm just calling 'em out. Okay. So one, um, the prosthetic arm is badass. Like I love that they worked that in.

It was so cool. Um, Draco being afraid to love his daughter until he actually holds her in his arms was just gut wrenching. Just cut me wide open. I loved it.

And then I do think that's, we're gonna get into this in a second, but I don't, I don't like love some of these last chapters, but I do think it's because I.

Don't really like babies that much, or like, and I've never desired to have a child, and so That's fair. A man, I, I know this is, it gets most ladies wombs, all gushy to be like a man who loves a ba, a baby, a child is a daughter. Like, I, I think this is like a, a people [00:44:00] who procreate, I think really not get off on this in like a weird way, but get off on that kind of a thing.

And it's the kind of thing that I'm like, yeah, okay. Yeah. Okay. I, I don't, I don't find, I can see why somebody with a child would get gushy over that. I personally

don't

care at

all. I guess for me what was impactful about it was he was so deeply determined to never care about anyone but Hermione because it only led to pain.

Right? Right. He only led to more responsibility, more people that he would have to come compulsively take care of. Yeah. And so. That was, that was the pull for me.

Yeah. I, I feel like he's already done that. He's already gotten over that though, with her minding, I wouldn't say he got over it, but I mean, he, he, he overcame, listen, Draco's a totally cool guy now.

Um, but it's, it, it is funny to have this conversation and realize [00:45:00] just what an apologist I am for him. Like, in my mind I'm like, every excuse that I can make you can do no wrong. I am right there doing it. I got

you.

Uh,

anyways. What, what, what's that? What else is in your gr egg? Okay, I got a couple more. Um, I love the description of the architecture in the house that they're in, and I know I, I have seen some feedback that a lot of people are like, eh, that was just wasted words.

But for me, I really enjoy architecture and I am interested in the way that it shapes our daily lives and how we interact with both nature and the people that we're closest to.

Mm-hmm.

And I think we see that in how they interact with Ginny. Ginny has like her own, I don't wanna say wing of the house, that feels a little grand, but they can each, it's separated by a whole garden, right?

I mean, it really is over there. They each have their own separate spaces, but it's also easy for them to come together when they're comfortable doing so. Yeah.

I thought that there's really no other architecture mechanism that can do the [00:46:00] sliding door mm-hmm. Expand and contract mm-hmm. That Hermione can best excel in.

Mm-hmm. Other than that architecture though, I, I, I would agree with you. I think it's, and I think a valid pause to say and like to me, right. My boy Draco, thinking of everything. Mm-hmm. Literally. How, what kind of place can I put her, where we can best nurture her going forward? How can I make this the best possible space?

I thought it was worth taking a beat.

I thought so too. And especially considering her, um, not only like all of the like things that he had curated for her, but he also took into consideration her agoraphobia. Yeah. And so like the sliding walls, you know, to your point, are very much like whatever type of space she feels comfortable in, we can cur we can create for her.

Yeah. I love that. Yeah. That's it. Done. Okay. Writer's desk. Writer's desk. Let's talk. We talked a little bit about character arcs. Yep. What do you think [00:47:00] traditionally in a story, you would need to see a very clear character arc for the main character in particular, right. It's it's other characters. Sure. But definitely for the main characters and in this story, I would say the character arc is very subtle.

Like

you

really

gotta read between the lines.

But at the same time, like I said, I reiterate like there was something that was also kind of weirdly satisfying to me about it. One of the things that I appreciate about what Slen Yu did here is the way that they addressed trauma in the story. So in a lot of books, especially I think Sci-fi fantasy mm-hmm.

There tends. There's this tendency for the main character to go through awful stuff and then through like sheer will and bad assery. Yeah. They just like get over it and then everything is fine at the end. And that never felt well, it can be fun to read. It never felt true. Yeah. And so this felt true in that sense of [00:48:00] they went through deeply traumatic things and they never truly got over it.

Right. Yeah. Hermione never, you know, moves past her agoraphobia. Draco never just does anything. We'll get into it, we'll get into it, but he never moves past like his compulsive, you know, safety precautions. Yeah. To take care of the people around him. And so I just think that is not something you see typically in this genre.

Yeah, that was, that's a good point. Was really impactful for me.

Yeah. I don't really read to be entertained. I'll watch a movie or a show if I wanna just be entertained. One I read because I write. And if you write, you should read Yes to uh, I read so that I can think more deeply about my own experience in the world.

Basically the end of this book is that Hermione and Draco go live on an island for a while with Ginny, otherwise by themselves, and they raise their daughter. Right. And they basically [00:49:00] just remove themselves mm-hmm. From society and the world around them. Mm-hmm. They don't contribute much. Uh, Hermione sends some of her inventions around prosthetics back to the world and stuff like that, but for the most part they're just like, yeah, I'm not really participating anymore.

So at this point, they're 26, 27. Mm-hmm. You're literally going to live the next 50 to 60 years of your life just hanging out on an island in Japan. Like you went from being perhaps the best wizard ever and the most ingenious healer. You went from being these two extremely high performing, impactful human beings to just cashing it in, being like, I'm out.

Is that what we're supposed to get out of? This is like shit got hard and they gave up.

It is gonna be no surprise to anyone that I have a different take on this. So, [00:50:00] okay. For one, we actually don't know after like the first few years how they actually spent their time.

Right? So we don't know if, yes, they just like languished like decades of their life. However, I also think that this idea that because you have a skill and because you have a talent that you are then obligated to dedicate your life to, it is not healthy. And two, I think they have already given everything to this war.

They have already sacrificed, they have already given everything that they can. And so I don't, they deserve peace in whatever form they want it. And I, in my mind, they don't have an obligation to continue to serve. They

do? Well, I think it's it. I'm not saying that they have to go be in politics, but like Draco can't pick up painting, do you know what I mean?

Like they just, yeah, like Draco in particular literally just sits [00:51:00] around and watches Hermione. He checks the wards twice a day, talks to his daughter once his daughter's gone. What are you going to do with yourself? Yeah. Do needs a hobby. I'm not saying he has to go be the best wizard or again, that any of them have to do what Ginny's doing in politics or go fight for anyone.

But the most existential question we have, I think to answer as human beings is like, what are we here for? I believe we are here for each other. Yeah. We're here to teach each other things. We're here to learn from each other. We're here to hopefully leave the place better after we go.

And I just think that they, I I, I wish that they loved themselves as much as I love them. Almost to be to some extent, yeah. To where they'd go. Okay. Like, and her mind is like doing shit, you know, she's like creating the prosthetics and mm-hmm. Whatever. So like you, you can still add so much Yeah. To make people's lives better.

That you don't, and this idea too, that like by making someone else's life better, you have to sacrifice something. Like that's also not true. You get to do [00:52:00] both of those things at the same time. Yeah. Most of the time. Yeah. It's just that during a war, a lot of what you're sacrificing to help other people hurts you.

But that's not actually the experience that you should have with helping people. It should be mutually beneficial most of the time.

Right. And as humans, we are hardwired to create. Right. Yeah. And both Hermione and Draco show this in in multiple different ways. And to your point, Hermione continues this, right?

Because someone as highly intelligent as Hermione and Draco need an outlet. I would think they need a creative outlet.

Yeah.

So I do. I see your point that yeah. As a very highly intelligent person, what is his outlet going to be? Because Yeah. Yeah. Humans are meant to create, we can't help it at some Yeah.

At some level. So,

and to the point that I made in the last episode about how does Draco become so good at sex? Like, it's, uh, he's also like, read every book and he's like, in the [00:53:00] muggle world. Yeah. And he's doing all of these things and then he just becomes a shell. And, and I, I feel like if that's the point, some people just never make it out.

Fine. But I also don't feel like that point is very well articulated either. Like, you need some sort of dialogue. If, if you want to lead me to this point, sometimes it's just too much. I, I, I felt a little adrift

Yeah. At the end. Yeah. I was like,

what am I supposed to be getting out of this? It just sort of ends, I, I shouldn't say that.

Love the end. End. Mm-hmm. I love So they have a kid. What is her, how do you

pronounce her name,

do you think? Aro.

Okay. It, yes, they're the, it is a French name and the French pronunciation is a little different, but I would totally, but it butcher it, but in English, yeah, it would just be aro.

Okay. Aro, um, oh, it grows up and then goes and reads this book about the history of the war.

[00:54:00] And Hermione doesn't have a chapter. She is literally a footnote. She's in a pic in the picture from Christmas between Harry and Ron, and she's super skinny and it's one of those moving pictures 'cause it's magic. And, um, and she, uh, is just in there like, you know, a muggle, Hermione Granger who became a handmaid and died in the big explosion.

So, and then literally at the very, very end, like she never fought.

Right? So the only line about her in the. In this entire book is she was a non-participating member of the order and she did not fight. Yeah. That line, it's good. Haunts me and will not. Yeah. Let me go. That's good. I think about it at least several times a week.

Like that line is like etched into my ribcage.

Yeah. It's, it's, that's really good. Yeah. [00:55:00] That's excellent. And I think that is, I mean, you know, history is like that we either control the story that people are gonna tell about us to some extent. Mm-hmm. Or if you leave it up to fate, you might not like what they say.

Which is how it ends up for Draco and Hermione. Like everyone else writes their story Yes. For them, which is entirely inaccurate. And to your point earlier is the winners always write the story.

Yes. That's the line.

Yeah. And so. Even that conversation between Harry and Hermione, where Harry's like, well, yeah, good.

Always wins. And Hermione is like, well, the winners always portray themselves as the good guys.

Yeah.

So

here it is. Yeah. So I am married to a white man over the age of 40, and therefore he is obligated to love World War ii obligated. And so I [00:56:00] also get a lot of information about World War ii, and one of the things that I always find to be the most devastating is that when the bad guys start to lose, in the case of World War ii, it's the Nazis, obviously, when they start to lose and the resistance or the allies or whatever word you wanna use there starts to come.

There are always the people that are at the end that get saved last. And I always find that to be one of the most. Heartbreaking concepts. And they talk about that here where Hermione thinks about why, what did they call? Like the, who comes in and helps at the very, very end and actually like, helps defeat them.

What is that called? The coalition or,

oh yeah. I think you're right.

Like the coalition, um, we're gonna call it the coalition anyways. Um, when the coalition comes and she thinks like, why didn't you just come?

Yeah.

Before all of this shit happened with Draco and me,

all of these people could have survived.

Yeah. You [00:57:00] know, and I, I'm always like, oh yeah, that sucks. That's, I that's the Anne Frank thing, right? Yes. Like when they were all taken was right at the end and it was just a couple of months and they would've made it so, Ugh. That sucks. Yeah. Devastating. That was heavy. Yeah. What would you like to talk about now?

That was, that was real rough. Okay. Okay. Um, the epilogue, do you wanna talk about the epilogue? I do wanna talk about it. Yeah. Let's do it. Because I don't think the epilogue in Manacled actually functions as a true epilogue.

I had the same thought. I was like, what? Right. I feel like this is just part of the story.

Right, exactly. So in my mind, an epilogue will provide context to a story. It'll provide some texture, you know, some extra little, um, you know, nuggets about how they end up Little sprinkles. Yeah. But sprinkles, it's not, it shouldn't be necessary to complete the story. Like the story should stand on its own without the epilogue.

And this story does not stand on its own without the epilogue. It is absolutely needed [00:58:00] to complete the story.

Yeah, I concur. And so, final ratings. Uh, I mean, obviously 12 stars. If I was gonna say, if you could give it a thousand stars, you would, I, it's a five star book for me. I am flabbergasted at Sling, MU's ability to write this on an, on an app and the ability to.

It release something like this on a weekly basis. I, I, it's very well done. Mm-hmm. It found myself thinking about characters after I put the book down. It is all of the cornerstones of a great book. I would recommend it, it's five stars for me,

but,

but I do not love, uh, from essentially the escape through that final chapter.

I love that final mm-hmm. Final epilogue with Aurora and James when they reunite. I like the, the parallels between Harry and Hermione story. I love that. And I really love that final, [00:59:00] see, I didn't care for that. Oh, really? Not that

I like disliked it, but it didn't touch me. Like in that way. I was like, oh, oh no.

I love,

I, I'm, I'm very, so, I don't like babies, but I like young people a lot. Like I like. Teenagers and young adults, I very much like thinking about either how they're going to repeat the patterns of their mm-hmm. Parents or dissuade them. That is just the age where your whole world is open. Mm-hmm. You can make any choice that you want.

And I also like thinking about the fact that they have so many more choices. Yeah. Now that vort is done.

Yes.

So, yeah, I found that very sweet and lovely. I have already covered most of this. Who Draco becomes here at the end is I think most of what leaves me being a little, like, I just really wanted him to become a painter.

I dunno why, but I also just, again, they have magic. So like they, he can choose to do [01:00:00] whatever he wants. Yeah. He can go anywhere. He can make himself look. Anyway, I felt really let down that he just becomes a shell. And again, if that's the point. Fine. But I also didn't feel like that was the point in the way that the writing conveyed those la those few chapters after escape to, to the last one.

So I just felt a little confused.

Yeah. I would love for Draco to find some level of joy and feed his, you know, curiosity in ways that are outside of Hermite and Aurora.

Yeah. And then there is of course, the fact I'm not a, a big romance reader. I, there's a quote that I Googled and Chachi Petit, and it can't tell me who said this, but I know it didn't come from my brain, which is that the best love stories are about what is lost, not gained because of love.

And so, my favorite book of all time has gone with the Wind and everything that Rhett and Scarlet go through in that book worth it [01:01:00] is that she's just a beat. Short

Yeah.

On realizing who he is to her. Right. There's nothing better than that. There's just nothing better than dollar short and a day late. Um, I just, I, I, I, I think I, I think ultimately it's because I, I don't know if it's just like, it's not interesting, you know what I mean?

Like, the two people being in love forever, I don't know. That's my life. Who cares? You know what I mean? That's what I've done, that that's what I planned to do. Uh, give me some heartbreak. So I, I think if I'm being totally honest, I would've liked this more. If it was a love story, I would've liked probably Draco to die on the operating table and Hermione to have had.

Because I, I think she doesn't know how she'd live without him, but she would've, and she would've been there for Roar. And then Ginny and her would've had maybe like a complex of amazing ladies and their children. That's my plan for not children, but dogs. [01:02:00] When I am old and gray and my husband dies on me, I'm just gonna get with a bunch of ladies.

We're gonna have a bunch of dogs on a farm somewhere in the middle of Noah, Wisconsin, and we are gonna live our absolute best life. Like I would have that as an ending. I would've been like, fucking get it. Amazing.

Yeah. Uh, respect the, the opinion, not, not mine, but one thing that I appreciated about Draco getting to live is that.

You know that scene when they get to, it's like a cabin before they go on to meet Jenny at the Yeah. Okay. They, the whole time they're there, they are absolutely terrified and paranoid about the death eaters. Um, just swarming 'em, swarming 'em, ambushing them. And as a reader you suddenly realize like, oh, now we're moving from physical threats to psychological ones.

Like, you now have to work through your demons in a way that you didn't have to because you didn't have the [01:03:00] space to, 'cause you were facing very real physical threats.

Yeah.

And again, that's something that I don't see tackled much in fantasy sci-fi books. And I don't know if Hermione would've had that same experience if Draco didn't make it.

Like, if she didn't also have to worry about his safety, if he also didn't have to worry about her safety, it wouldn't have been as, you know, impactful.

Yeah, I'll do without it. Kill my man. Can put him on his misery. Okay, so now that we're all the way through this, I don't have a lot of canon who dad. 'cause now I'm so educated about this world.

You got all the canon, you've, you've done such a good job. However, we did already talk about port keys. I did not know what the fuck this thing was. Is this, is it in Harry Potter? Yes. Court keys. Yeah. You're all like, oh, okay. Got it.

Yeah. Very, very common means of travel.

Yeah. I didn't have any idea. So I had to wait until she [01:04:00] touched the spoon and then I was like, wait, why does her belly button hurt?

I don't understand what's going on. And then she like, and then I was like, oh. Okay. Um, and then I, I still kind of, so I was like, wait, wait, what? But then when they went to the shack in the middle of the thing that you just talked about and there was a key, I was like, okay, got it. I

got it now. I

totally got what's gonna happen.

Yeah. Uh, so you mentioned the unbreakable vow that is driving Draco. Yep. What are the consequences of breaking an unbreakable vow? They die. They, they unlive. That's it. Dark marks, darker thoughts. I have this, what I believe you're probably gonna think is, um, not a good take, but. There is a lot of conversation about how the malfoy are dragons.

Yes. They become obsessed with things. Yep. They're possessive. I, I don't know [01:05:00] that Draco knows what love is. I, I don't think he is in love with Hermione. I think he is possessive of her and obsessed with her. I do think that some of that, like, you're mine, you're mine, you're mine. I, again, it's one of those things where I was with her Mindy until she got a little too whiny for me.

A little too savor complexity. And I feel the same thing with this whole possession and obsession thing is like act three. I started getting real, like, do I send someone in for Hermione? Like, I don't know. And you've said this is not the a healthy relationship. No. Which totally, but I don't even know if it's love.

I think it's just obsession.

I feel like at this point you're just being intentionally combative,

if I'm being honest. Yeah. I don't, I think it's just an obsession. That he has with her, [01:06:00] especially if like, he really doesn't need anything else to live. If everything in your whole world truly revolves around one other person, I don't know that that's love. I think that's, an impulse that's almost, and like you have to think to some extent, right?

He has these ruins on his back Yes. That are driving him to be all of these incredibly driven sort of things. And he has made the agreement with the order that Hermione is his before and after the war. No matter if he said it with like a tongue in cheek, like, oh, I can't believe they bought it. Whatever.

Like, but you still said it and like that, that's how this shit works in this world is like you say something like that. And that's just how it is. That now is like in your essence, you are obsessed with her forever

and. Her mind even calls it out. And it's one of my favorite lines, and I hope it's an alchemized, is if he's a monster, then I am his creator.

And there's totally a lot of truth to that. Yes. Not only because of the, the [01:07:00] way that she initially, intentionally emotionally manipulated him. Yeah. Um, the ruins on his back that she helped heal that shape. Who he is the eye of Isis. Yeah. That is constantly healing him from the badget, that he does like all of those things combined to Yes.

Make him a monster in a sense that he cares about. No one is completely ruthless in his objective, which is just to protect Hermione at this point. And what's interesting is that Slan Yu, while they were writing this was. Uh, inspired by Mary Shelley and yeah, Frankenstein. I think we've touched on this before.

I

don't think so actually, but no. Okay.

The way that we as humans, as creators can impact the world, not only positively, but also negatively despite having good intentions.

Yeah. I only have one other point here, dude. Ginny, what a dark horse. I think she's the smartest person [01:08:00] in this fucking book. She's the last person to join the order.

She's got a facial scar, makes her look like a badass, and she fucked. The most important person. Harry Potter had his baby. I mean, historically. Yes. I'm just saying. Yes. You know, has his baby. Yeah. She gets whisked away. Barely any trauma at all there in Sussex. I, um, maybe none at all. So she gets whisked away.

She gets to pop back up in England, kill Voldemort, free the Handmaids become the handmaid's hero basically by, by championing them politically. Mm-hmm. So that they can keep the kid if they want to. Not if they don't. She is like the original eat the rich. Like she is saying, like all of these historic 28 families have really fucked everything up.

They don't get to be in power anymore. Right. We, the people taking back their power and literally just gets to like rebuild the order however she sees fit.

I mean, come on. [01:09:00] She ends up pretty good in the end. Yeah. She, you know, she got to skip the worst of it and then comes in and cleans everything up. Now, obviously that wasn't all her doing, but Yeah, she, I don't wanna say she had a, had a sweet deal 'cause she had her fair share of shit, but, you know, comparatively though, comparatively.

She, she has, this is like 1% of pain and suffering compared to every everyone else that we see. Well, she didn't still

lose the love of her life. Like let's not

wha No, I'm just kidding.

We don't

necessarily feel emotionally tied, but she did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, speaking of pain and suffering, the last thing that I will point out here is we RegEd on Angelina for lecturing Hermione.

Yeah. About the spirit of hope or whatever. I also love that she pops back up. She is probably using some prostheses that come from Hermione brain. She doesn't even know it. I like that she pops back up and she basically thinks that [01:10:00] Aurora is Hermione walking through wherever they are. School or yeah, whatever.

I do like that we see her again at the end of the war and that she lived and probably has her own scars and a much better understanding of the real cost of war. However, I will also say this. People can't be this stupid. You have, you have a situation where you have this little girl or like this young woman who looks just like Hermione Granger with the gray eyes of Malfoy with the last name of black.

You can't be that dumb who is with Harmione's like friend in confidant. You can't, I mean, you, you know. You know this is you come on. People believe what they want to believe. So to me, continued. This was our last episode, but guess what? [01:11:00] There's another book, alchemized. So it just came out. How

far are you?

Yeah, so it came out today and we started this podcast pretty early. So I have only read the first two chapters. I. I am already so excited. So I wanna do a little exercise Okay. Before we move on to the alchemized episodes. Oh, okay. Um, I'm not far enough in to give anything away, but I'm curious. Okay. What are some, like hopes you have for the next book or predictions that you have?

Because I have a few. One, I hope that there, there are a few lines that I love that I hope get to stay. I hope we see again the, uh, she did not fight. Mm-hmm. Lime the, if he's a monster, I'm his creator. Mm-hmm. Um, I will love you till there's nothing left of me and you will not make your death convenient.

Right. Those I hope get to stay. We'll see. Um, I also read the [01:12:00] snippet that was released in, um. In Cosmo, Como Magazine. I know that was

still a thing.

Apparently it is. I literally, so no idea. Um, are they still just doing like weight loss quizzes? I honestly didn't read anything else in it other than that.

Oh my gosh. Article. So I couldn't even tell you. I don't even know

what they did to a whole generation of American girls. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Um, yeah, that is a whole nother episode. So we're gonna come back to the snippet of Alchemized Fine. And there in, it's the scene where, um, the Hermione character, her name is Helena, is arriving to like the Malfoy manner and the Astoria character is standing outside.

And honestly, purely based on her wardrobe, I think she's going to be a much more interesting character.

Ooh, nice.

I, I mean, won't know till we're in it, but Yeah. Um, yeah, so she has skull jewelry, she has [01:13:00] some like. Metal claws. She has a cane. So like girl got like literal claws. Yeah. We'll see how this

plays out.

Nice. See, I bet the editor was like, you need to do more work on the secondary characters. You gotta give people something to sink their teeth into.

Yeah. Yeah. I also predict that because Slan Yu is such a prolific researcher mm-hmm. That we'll get more into the socioeconomic drivers of the world. Ooh, okay.

Um, so I, I think we're gonna get a lot more detail there. We'll see. And then lastly, I think alchemy. Is not only going to be like the primary magic system, I also think it's gonna be a metaphor for all kinds of things. Yeah. Happening in the story, right? So the way that like emotions can be alchemized, um, they are master of nuance.

So you know that there's just going to be layer on top of layer on top of layer. Yeah.

And it, I mean it is the whole thing with [01:14:00] Manacled, the entire book is just about humans, people wizards, the things that are manacled, the things that chain you. Yes. So I would expect nothing less of alchemized. I have literally no expectations.

Like I, I didn't even realize that it's essentially the same story. So I would never expect to see explicit lines. I, I think naturally I maybe would've had the exact opposite reaction. Okay. I want all new shit, I guess is kind of where I'm at mentally. That's, um. I don't, I don't hate an a, a great callback line.

A something that, that he's a little nod stays. But, um, yeah, I have, I have no expectations. I, I've done no research and have no expectations go. I'm just here for the ride, just like I was with Manacles going in blind. Absolutely. That's, that's my whole plan is you read it all the way through. You tell me how much I'm reading the first episode [01:15:00] and we'll get it done.

I'm so excited. Well, this was so fun. I am very grateful that you agreed to do this with me and that you brought your love of Manacled to me, and I hope everybody who has listened to any of it, uh, enjoyed

it too. Yeah, this was super fun. I hope no matter what your level of familiarity with is with Manacled, whether you were totally new or a huge fan, I hope that you enjoyed it.

Yeah.